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 Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)

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geekus_sapiens
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:11 pm

Oh, and Balufire ninja'd me, so I'm going to go out on a limb and agree with Lichen that the History Channel is so totally chock-full of history that I can't see it around all the other history.
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:14 pm

It went from Hitler to UFO's. Not a great way to market "History".
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:15 pm

Tea-time nukes would make you more civilized. Not less so.

Also,
the Oijah'vi may not have even done that do to persecution. They probably would have fled by now. Or they could take on a resemblance to early modern European Jewish cmmunities. They mostly kept to themselves,and except for being blamed for everything that goes catastrophically wrong, they were mostly left alone save for the occasional harassment due to the blaming.


Last edited by geekus_sapiens on Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:18 pm

The things is that we always like to blame things on things that have nothing to do with the things.
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:21 pm

Exactly. I think that the Jewish community scenario would be most likely. All you would have to do to fix it in the story would be to replace "cave" with "village in the wilderness".
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:24 pm

Right.
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:40 pm

LichenDragon wrote:
I'm not sure about working on the story line but I can give insight on strategics.

Major notes, if the Iga'Vi are very large and industrialized, they'll have cores of Professional soldiers well armed with the bulks of their armies made up of levies from conquered lands which'll probably be much more poorly armed. They'll also probably have problems with defections, moral and cultural disputes.

I still say that humans trump anything since they'll have super weapons. (Yes they will because we'll never truly become a single completely unified species. and a few (super)weapons will probably always be stocked because who knows when you'll need them.) I'd expect humans to be passive bystanders.

But I digress,

Jay'Vi will probably have similar armies though much smaller and more adapted to hit and runs since I suppose they have a more Saracen style army. They may or may not have problems with cultures and likely are more cavalry based.

Aari'Vi will most likely have combinations of peasants, levies and well armed chiefs/nobles/rich.

Svia'Vi will probably be relatively unorganized and really will be like Native Americans were in fighting stlye: Small raiding parties picking off small groups and then retreating to friendly territory in a "There's nothing to conquer because there aren't any cities" warfare.

Oijah'Vi would be, eh: Personally I think they should be the same sort of script as the Svia'Vi since I find it unlikely to have Napoleonic and culturless, well, cultures occuring at the same time on such a well connected planet, and if they have no culture how can they be a clan? It's an oxymoron.Valiero'Vi would be pretty much the same as the Aari'Vi though perhaps more Gaulic in nature.
Right about Iga. They also have primitive steam-powered war-machiens. However, I like to think of Iga more like Mordor than industrialised Europe. Their capitol is very Morder-esque and reminds me of Vulcan's Forge. Or Hepheastus' Forge. Whatever. (Bara'dur, their island capitol, is a rift volcano. It's also completely covered by the least enviromentally friendly city ever.)

There are no (human) super-weapons on Novusvita. Let's just say our chances aren't good if we don't expect the attack.

The Jay are pretty much what you said.

Not quite so with the Aari. They have quite an impressive (and huge) naval force (perhaps it's becaue they live on the sea?).

You're also pretty much right with Svia. They also have the means of using wildlife as weaponry (much knowlage of the life in the jungles the inhabit). They have multiple mounts, primitive bioweapons and stuff.

Oijah has no military force. They're basically just a mini-nation hiding in cave-cities. They want absolutely nothing to do with the outside world. Also, they were never a seperate civilisation. They were once part of Iga before they went all industrial and conquery and *coughcommunistcough*. They were part of a huge rebellion in Iga that created a huge civil war. Suckishly, Iga mannaged to kill and/or drive out the rebels. Oijah (which means "The Forgotten") was a large exodus of these rebels who fled from Iga to avoid death. They settled in the mountains and caves of Cyro'bar and formed their own secret "civilisation". Balu is fairly correct with this. Except for the currency - they trade with one another. And the crystals are actualy luminescent minerallians that reside within the caves, so the "jewelery" doesn't need to be bough, just "picked" off the cave walls at places.

Valiero is highly advanced colture-wise. I imagine them as almost the "Gondor" of Novusvita. They are excelent masons capable of creating incredible stone works and buildings and have a liking of horse-like stuff and thus have a cavalry. I guess the could have smelting plants and small matal-works factories, but nothing in comparison with Iga. I think they could be Roman-esque, perhaps.




@Balu: Thanks.



@Lichen: Trust me, you haven't seen these caves (and if you had to hide from the world and the closest thing was an enormous cave system of the most awesome quality, wouldn't you go there? I mean, because of luminescent Minerallians, much of the caves aren't in darkness. There are also entire cave eco-systems here. Think underground forrests.

AND OUJAH ARE EXILES. NOT A DESTROYED CIVILISATION.



*Sigh*

And I'm not changing their location. Much of the novel's storyline is based around them, especially in the last two books.

And they don't live like cavemen. You haven't seen these caves.
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:36 am

Your other description of the Oijah'vi confused me then. I'm sorry for spreading lies.
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:12 am

Same here. Oops.

So I was basically correct. The Valiero are more or less the equivalents of Ghana, Mali, and Songhai.

It just seems unrealistic that we have so many different levels of civilization. The industrialized Mordor people make sense along with the nomads and cavedwellers, but not with the classical Valiero civilization, unless the Iga have been interfered with on a planetary scale to be more advanced.
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:53 am

Iga's speady rise is due to a want to be better than everything else. Also, the other clans just don't have the resaurses or knowlage to become that advanced. Jay and Valiero come close in some ways. Valiero is still the most advanced colturaly.
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:51 pm

What am I being thanked for? I was merely trying to clarify any errors in my imagination.

Ok, so they would use the standard currency (what ever it may be) of Novusvita...

Wait isn't this thread about the Timeline...
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:50 pm

Eh, doesn't matter too much, since we have about 5 posters here it doesn't really matter much how we post, as long as we are intellectual and gaining in intellect. (Or are just entertained.)

So, the Oijah'Vi are going to be pretty much at best a really pissed off rabble if brought to arms, but are really going to be a population of people living apart from much of the rest of the world and are going to spend most of their time farming mountain slopes and living like peaceful versions of Incas.

The Jay'Vi and Valiero'Vi will be the main contenders against the Iga'Vi then.

Svia'Vi, eh, will probably be relatively useless on the march and really probably will only work together to kick the butts of anyone who tries to take their land. Particularly if they like using animals in a Avatar style and looking at their homeranges then they probably can't do much outside the tropics aside making great cannon fodder or skirmishers.

The Aari'Vi are pretty much a Carthage or Venice then, meaning that they're probably very likely to colonize and take islands and small headlands, probably in the interests of money. (Because when you're small your only hope is money)


Pretty much it looks like a large naval conflict that then leads to naval supported land attacks on multiple fronts on the Agi'Vi, much like the Allied works against the French Empire. (Naval Blockade, Invasion through Spain, defense of Sicily, Alliance with Russia, etc.) That's my take on this conflict. On the subject of the capital I think in truth most likely this capital would be off-shore the main origin of their culture. (AKA, say, a Russian Capital on a island off the Russian coast, as opposed to say the French coast.)

I think this is more likely then being in the middle of the ocean. A Venice instead of a Malta I think would be much more likely as a capital. The problem is that a mid ocean island isn't necessarily a high travel point. (By the way, are they using galleys or Galleasses and Man-Of-Wars at this point?) It matters greatly because if they're using Galleasses and Galleys then they couldn't even have a mid-ocean capital, if Man-Of-Wars then they may have the ability to have a central capital though I feel that a land or off shore capital is really more accurate then a tiny mid-ocean volcanic island. (Hawaii isn't the capital of a Pacific empire for a reason.)


But you're wondering when I'll stop typing aren't you?

Well, any second now.

Any second...

I'm done.
Basically because this island sound like Malta, meaning that no major empire could originate from the actual island. More likely the island was colonized and later made the capital of said empire in your particular version.
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:15 am

Quote :
More likely the island was colonized and later made the capital of said empire in your particular version.
Correct.

Here's the island:

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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:11 am

K, I think a large port city mostly made up of governmental, merchant and slave labor would be most appropriate since the island is obviously quite large, almost like Crete. Probably a number of large fortresses but a comparatively small crack garrison of guardsmen probably in a couple thousand of numbers.

Siege of Malta see this for what an invasion of the island would be like, it would be in mass causalities for any allied invasion and complete naval superiority would be the only hope of stopping mass reinforcements from land. Unless mass rebellion can be sparked in several continents. *Cough*Undeniable Military Facts*Cough*

Not to mention that even then if the number are 10 to 1 the siege could take months if not more then a year.

And where did the Original Agi'Vi originate, which of the three continents?
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:14 am

Mass Mass Repetition...

Sieges always take seemingly forever.

I never thought of the Aari'vi as small, they have sole control of most of the oceans. Nearly all rights in any trade, and could not really even need land colonies (They would need a few, but mainly for ship building materials.), not if they would be ingenious enough to tie ships together and form a floating colony. I bet this would look not only sweet, but would be highly practical, as taking over or much less finding a floating city would be next to impossible. Their ships would be probably be fairly advanced, not as much as the Iga'vi, but from years of trade and being on the sea with these guys they no doubt have replicated most of their weaponry. Their ships, being their only source of food from fishing and whaling (These would be a general human term, probably neither fish nor whales exist here), as well as communication and trade, would be vast, and most land would be dedicated to creating one. The culture would be small, but they would have many many people for the many ships at the leaders control. And because of trade, they would have most of the fruit or vegetables needed, as well as weapons from the Iga'vi (which they would probably not trade to any other empire because of worth.

Now most of that was just guesses if I am wrong in any part tell me. Some of it was suggestions that would better the balance of the civilizations
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:02 am

What do mean impossible to take? I'd see it as a liability if your capital could be torn to pieces by rough water. Not to mention simply taking an advantage of an opening in the ranks of defending ships could allow even a small group of enemies to sabotage multiple sectors of the city and perhaps even sink portions.

I think they would have lots of colonies all over the islands and peninsulas where money is the cogs of war. Don't forget that assuming they're using galeys they'd need only small numbers of men to control the ship with the majority of the crews slaves. they would fight as a blockading nation that uses mostly mercenaries and militias to defend their land holdings. Not to mention that in peace times most of their naval would be disbanded and the remainder simple to protect against piracy.

And they would most certainly do trading with other empires that offer valuables like spices, salts, sugars and innumerable materials and foods. To sell to other empires for a large margin of profit. (Think the Dutch Colonial Empire)

They would be the main naval force for any anti-Agi'Vi league but would be pressed in terms of trade, like Venice and the Ottoman Empire around the siege of Malta. Particularly if you're not well liked for your colonies and trading tactics.
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:09 am

Malta ftw.

Yeah... I don't have much to contribute.
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:44 am

Many people are assigning too many Earth attributes to the planet. They are vastly different and the gravity would make its physics entirely alien to anything on earth. For instance, wind would be more powerful, but less constant. Making the sea glassy smooth most of the time. Gravity would make the waves higher, but it wouldn't move faster, and it would be approximately 75% weaker, as momentum of the waves is driven by wind and gravity. The wind would be unreliable and using a Mast and sails would be a waste.

The Aari'vi cities would be multiple ships tied together in a circular like pattern, except for a shipyard. Their ships would be connected, not completely rigid, but enough to keep it afloat if one or multiple ships are flooded. They would be connected by ropes, and would easily come apart. In the center of the ring would be an opening, allowing for fishing and such. It would also allow them to group around a barge or other such object.

This would also give a tactical advantage making the grouping almost impossible to find even on the most clear of days. And although the ships would move slowly when attached the vast multitude of weapons and people would make nearly any assault fall short depending on the number of ships attacking and defending.

They would trade constantly the usual stuff, but I was speaking more of a technology sharing part. Where they would not be able to gather food or other materials they would trade what they could get, Salt, fish, seaweed, and any other things they would come across after privateering(Legal Piracy) any unsigned ships. And trading with the Iga'vi would be a must as the Iga would not be able to farm very well because of pollution, most if not every food source would be dead around the capitol. The Iga would need food, the Aari'vi need other things like metals and etc. Weapons would occur once in a while.

Questions that I don't know:
Where would they get slaves?
Are they military based or economic based?
What kind of ships do they use?
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:12 pm

I guess they would use paddles to move their ships along, or perhaps they could train some aquatic animals to pull the boats around, like horse drawn carriages (except on water). Are the boats which the Aari'vi use more advanced than those of the Iga'vi? I would think that the Aari'vi would have more advanced boats, seeing as they live on the sea.
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:18 pm

For your questions:

War, tribal populations, criminals, it's the main problem of the Galley, a constant fuel supply of slaves is always difficult.

Economic since they're such a naval based power, war is lucrative as long as you're not the one fighting it. Just look up Venice, it's basically in the state as the Aari'Vi.

Galleys if the wind in sporadic at best. Galleasses and Man-O-Wars would be too difficult to place in the battle line even if they could get there in the first place. For reference a Galley is obviously the long many oared ships rowed by slaves. Notable though from a Trireme is the presence of several large cannons at the bows. These are fired at the beginning of combat but are rarely reloaded in battle. A ram is also still placed at the bow of the ship. Notably at The Battle of Lepanto the Holy League removed its ram to allow it's ships to fire lower and closer increasing accuracy and devastation in the Ottoman ships.

I'm still looking at the floating city as unrealistic....

The big problem is water, stores and the fact that the city is at the mercy of the tides. What if said city was driven on to shore rocks? And how does the empire's ships find their own ports? They have to repair, resupply and destock at a port. If the port itself is in the middle of the ocean the entire idea of a port is moot. The man power required to move such a structure would make the thing impracticable. And I see no animals that I can even think of that could do the job unless we're in Mythical Greece and fail to apply evolution.

I say no to floating cities, though I could very easily see a Tenochtitlan in an inland lake or even possibly a small inland sea.


And how could they pollute at entire continent or even dozens of miles to an extent that farming is impossible? Industrilization would only take effect in and very close to cities. It'd be like London or New York or so on. Even the mid ocean island would be farmable, particularly considering the volcanic nature. They could easily import extra food from the continents.
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:21 pm

The name is IGA'vi.


Anyway, Iga originated from northern Gharo'zaghira (the continent on the left of the island).


Anywho, here's the basic structure of Bara'dur:


In the centre we have the Forges, an area of land roughly the size of central Paris. It is built around three volcanic craters, each active. Powerful metal structures, built to withstand volcanic earthquakes, blackened from smoke and ash, are everywhere. The Forges are the largest metal-working factory and smelting plant on the planet and are responsible for most of the Iga Empire's armour, weapons and war-machienes. A weird black metal of incredible lightness, durability and streangth is found in the heart of the island. This is mined here and fabricated into armour and stuff. One can barely see in the Forges due to all the smoke and stuff. It's quite slum-like.

Around this, the Inner City holds much of the normal city stuff, including the Emporer's Pallace (he really doesn't care about environmental luxury). It's mainly built of metal and stone. It's not as slum-like or inside-a-gigantic-smoke-cloud as the Forges, but it's still fairly slum-like in Earth standards.

Around this, covering about 60% of the island, is a belt of city-less-ness with volcanic fields, open plains and even a bit of forest here and there. Bara'dur's agriculture can be found here.

Allong much of the coast is the Outer City, which is like the Inner City, but less slum-like (but still Slum-like). Here you'll find the docks and the naval yards.

The whole island is connected by four "highways" that start on the north, east, south and west tips of the island and then spiral inward in a clockwise direction up the slope of the island untill they reach a "highway ring" that runs through the Inner City, around the Forges.



I'll make a simple map later.



By the way, I made you guys part of the Writer's Guild for a reason.



And you guys' conclusions are mostly correct. Smile



HOWEVER, Iga has slaves, not Aari.

Also, Iga = Military, Aari = Economic.

Also also, the Aari cities are anchored to the sea floor by, well, really heavy anchores and really strong rope. The cities are flexible (opposite-of-rigid flexible) enough to not be destroyed by weather or sea. Unless there's a hurricane.
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:30 pm

So we stop asking you every tiny question that springs to out minds?



I almost envision this sort of design in the roads, though with roads, not canals:



And a volcano in the middle.

They're only semi-active and just smoke and smolder right?
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:33 pm

And a bit of lava at the centres of the craters witha lava flow and many lava tubes, yes.


That's sort of it. Just replace the rings with spirals.
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:11 pm

Epic, truly Epic, I can see them in my head and am just itching to see a true picture. Maybe I could draw one up, then if it looks good enough maybe make it three dimensional.

Cities in volcanoes FTW, but Floating Cities FTU![Universe]

Now to find some paper and stare at it until I figure out what to do.
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PostSubject: Re: Novuvsita Timeline of Major Events (But for now I need more information)   Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:58 pm

The city's not in a volcano, but on a volcano.

And the floating city's anchored to the sea floor.
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